EP 16 Part 1: The Functional Approach to Understanding Your Pelvic Floor

Welcome to part one of a three-part series to help you understand bladder leakage, why it happens, and the key role the pelvic floor and core have on it. In this episode, we discuss redefining what is normal and healthy regarding your bladder.

Our special guest, Dr. Angela Turnow, an orthopedic and pelvic floor specialist, helps moms with pelvic floor and core issues feel strong and supported for active motherhood. Inspired by her own experience with prolapse and leakage after the birth of her first baby, she's turned her pain points into an opportunity to help herself and other women who struggle. Through her free support group, Bladder Leak Solutions for Active Moms. Join other moms banishing leaks once and for all so they can embrace a full, active life.


Check out Part 2 and Part 3 to continue the conversation.


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0:00:00.0 S1: I was having a lot of leaking and just pain that I could not get rid of, like painful sex, a side joint pain, sciatica. I did all the regular orthopedic stuff, and my husband also was a physical therapist, so I had him. So both of us trying to figure this out, and I went to my doctor, and everything is normal, everything's fine. I didn't get great answers, basically, and so then I took it upon myself as a physical therapist, I'm able to go to continuing ed courses, specific for pelvic floor, and so I did that and I've gone to tons of courses now regarding the pelvic floor and just like how the whole body works together and how it's just such a beautiful piece when you integrate that with the orthopedic side, 'cause it's not just the pelvic floor. And so then I've been able to fix my own prolapse, fix my bladder leakage, able to run however I want and not leak and not leak when I’m sneezing and I just, I wanted to bring that to mom's.


0:01:02.8 S2: Welcome to the Wellness Essentials Podcast, where we invite you to join the conversation and get inspired to be in the driver’s seat of your health and well-being. On this podcast, you'll get an all-access pass inside the minds of MDs, experts and thought leaders in the industry. No topic is off-limits, and we're asking the questions to get you the answers across the gamut of topics when it comes to optimizing your health. This is the WE Podcast. Welcome to another episode, and today we have Angela Turnow, and she's here to tell us all about the pelvic floor and what exactly it is and what it means to us, so... Hi, Angela, welcome to the show.


0:01:58.7 S1: Hi. Yeah, I'm happy to be here.


0:02:01.0 S2: Thank you so much for being here with me today. And could you tell us a bit about your back story and how you got started in the work that you do?


0:02:09.6 S1: Sure, so college I was an orthopedic, I went to physical therapy school. And out of school, I became a orthopedic physical therapist, and then I have two kids, and after my son was born, one, childbirth was not great, there's a lot of... I don't think it's great, really, anyways, but going into it, it just was not what I expected at all, and then I had a lot of issues afterwards, a lot more a side joint pain, leaking. I ran marathons or I ran one marathon, let's clarify that. But in college, I ran cross country and track, and so just running was a really big part of my life, and so then getting back to that after my son was born was really challenging, and I was having a lot of leaking and just pain that I could not get rid of like painful sex, a side joint pain, sciatica. I did all the regular orthopedic stuff, and my husband also was a physical therapist, so I had him. So both of us trying to figure this out, and I went to my doctor and everything is normal, everything's fine. I didn't get great answers, basically, and so then I took it upon myself as a physical therapist, I'm able to go to continuing ed courses, specific for pelvic floor, and so I did that and I've gone to tons of courses now regarding the pelvic floor and just like how the whole body works together and how it's just such a beautiful piece when you integrate that with the orthopedic side, 'cause it's not just the pelvic floor. And so then I've been able to fix my own prolapse, fix my bladder leakage, able to run however I want and not leak and not leak when I’m sneezing and I just, I wanted to bring that to mom's because I knew how my body should work. And so I was able to be there for my family, be there for my kids, because I understood how my body was supposed to work. So, that’s what I bring to moms. That’s what I want to bring to moms, right. And I am, but that is my passion is to help moms get back being active, understand their body, get back running and jumping and being themselves in a way where they feel confident and strong and capable, and they are just able to live their life the way they want.


0:04:32.7 S2: That is incredible. It's very freeing. What you're saying is very freeing for women from moms who struggle. That is such a great thing, and that's something I haven't heard of really before, just teaching women these almost like functional skills on how to come back from something.


0:04:53.0 S1: Yeah, and motherhood alone is difficult, just... It's just so difficult, and I think that's an underestimation. But then when you add pelvic floor issues that seem isolating and they feel defeating when you leak and you're embarrassed or just beyond frustrated with how to fix it and not see means to get support with it, it just makes it that much harder. And it doesn't need to be. Like it doesn't need to be difficult to fix it, it can be very simple. 


0:05:30.6 S2: I’m all about a simple approach because like many of those moms out there, they're living busy lives, so this is something they can integrate right away, and it's not a huge laundry list of things to add to their to-do list.


0:05:46.2 S1: Yeah, and it makes your body just overall feel better. Like, I'm a huge proponent for functionality, just like you mentioned, so things that you can do, and I'm not talking about kegels when I say this, I'm not talking about kegels, that's a whole nother thing we could talk about. But things that you can do in the car or how you're lifting your child, just making your body feel good in the pelvic floor. I have a pelvis model sitting next to me, I can pull it out in a minute. But it sits in the middle of you, so it is a huge missing link when people are having a lot of, like I said, a side joint pain or pelvic pain, or if you're not addressing the heart of the issue, just the symptoms, you're overlooking a big piece of that.


0:06:35.3 S2: That's huge. You know, I'd really like to dive in to explain what exactly is the pelvic floor. What is the anatomy of it?


0:06:43.3 S1: Yes, absolutely. So before I, when I pull the pelvis out, my hands will be full. So your pelvic floor, it forms a diamond and they're the muscles that you sit on. So everybody is sitting on them right now, so they are your pee, poop, sex, childbirth muscles. They are the muscles that sit inside of your pelvis, they form a sling inside of your pelvis, and they are your child, or I already said childbirth muscles, but they are the base of your core. So your core is not just your abs, and so that's another I think misbelief that people think you just need to do ab work to get your core stronger, but that's not the case, you also need to consider your pelvic floor because that is the base of your core and they support your pelvic organs. So your bladder, uterus, rectum, they support your pelvic organs, and so they can be, you know it's not just about getting the muscles tight and strong, working harder, sometimes muscles need to be able to lengthen and relax. It's how all of the muscles work together, and so I'm gonna pull my pelvis out here, and so, I know if you guys are listening to this, you won't be able to see this, but it will help me explain it better, so this is the pelvis.


0:08:03.5 S1: Okay, this is the front of you and the pelvic floor is on the bottom. So you can also think about, you know I think everybody has heard of their butt muscles, their glutes, and so you can think about how the inside and the outside, they need to be balanced. Right, like if you're only considering the pelvic floor and you're thinking to get these tight, tight, tight or contract and really tense the muscles or do kegels and contract them, then if, this is an exaggeration, but if I squeeze the bottom, that's going to do funky things to the top. Do you see that? Right, and so then you might put more stress on your back, it's gonna make it really hard to heal the diastasis that can happen, or that always happens during pregnancy, and 60% of women continue to have diastasis after the first few months postpartum, which is the abdominal separation. It's an abdominal separation that happens in your mid-line so it can continue to make you look pregnant even though you're not. So the mom pooch, you know your abs just not seeming to work together and that can cause more hip pain and back pain. But basically, it's just how the whole system should work together, that's how you want to address leaking and bladder leakage and pelvic floor issues.


0:09:27.5 S1: So the inside and the outside need to work together, basically.


0:09:33.7 S2: Oh, that is so intriguing. That's something I don't think many of us really think about or are educated on, which is why I'm so glad you're here with us today, because that is huge. Just even that in itself, understanding that there is an actual muscle group making up the pelvic floor that sits between your back muscles and then your abdominals, that needs to work functionally with everything surrounding that area. Makes total sense.


0:10:06.7 S1: Exactly. Yeah, if I kind of used a little example here, so bladder leakage, you can just think of that as a symptom. Okay, let's just think about that as a symptom, and there's usually more things happening or that's kind of the pinnacle of like if there's not more things yet, there's gonna be more things coming, right, because it's a system breakdown that your body is not working efficiently together. So if we think about bladder leakage, bladder leakage as a symptom, whether it's a little bit or you're full out wetting your pants, it's just a symptom. So let's think about your elbow, so if you had elbow pain, now that would be a symptom too, right. If you had elbow pain, would it make sense to just flex your bicep? No, right. So that's not gonna fix your elbow pain. But instead, again, we're thinking about them as symptoms. Instead, you would want to maybe let the muscle let go, calm it down, teach it how to work with the rest of the body so that you're not putting so much stress on the elbow. And then that's how you're going to get rid of elbow pain or fix bladder leakage.


0:11:18.6 S1: Does that make sense?


0:11:20.5 S2: Yes, I definitely can see that metaphor because it's the surrounding the area around instead of treating the symptom as what it is treating what is the deeper underlying cause. That makes so much sense. 


0:11:44.3 S1: And if you think about, I mean certainly, you can have bladder leakage without being a mom, you can have bladder leakage before being a mom, you know I was in that boat where I had, I struggled with bladder leakage when I would run really hard races or have really hard runs in college, and so looking back, I already had issues before being a mom. Which again, if you don't know what normal is, and I never really like to ask people, “is everything normal”, because I don't know if you know what normal is. Right? So I always clarify that question like you say what's normal, or you say everything is fine and normal like let's dabble into that. Like what do you think is normal, right? So looking back, you have to look at how everything is working together.


0:12:30.8 S2: That makes a lot of sense, and it's something I even think about I've struggled with like when I was heavy into jump roping. I noticed I had a little response, my bladder responded and I was like, “What is this?” This is... and I even told myself, “this is what happens to people after they have a baby” in my head, and that is completely like, that’s you know, I think would be like a typical thought pattern, so I love how you're bringing this holistic approach to it. Can you dive a bit deeper into the passion you have for a holistic approach to this...


0:13:08.7 S1: Yes, so it's looking at, so if you think about all of the changes that happened in pregnancy, so I'm gonna take a couple of different approaches to this question. So if you think about all the changes that happened in pregnancy, and again, you can have issues before, you know, without having a baby. But, all of the changes, so your body is shifting, you're maybe having the pregnancy posture, right, like just kind of belly hanging out, maybe you're having the pregnancy waddle, things are tight, you move differently, and so now you have the baby and things don't just go back, 'cause your body has had nine months to get there, and it's, unless you have specific strategies to return, to kind of recalibrate is what I like to call it, re-calibrate your body of how it's supposed to work together, then that, I mean time alone is not gonna fix that. So you might be a year postpartum or five years or 10 years or 15 years postpartum, but if you didn't specifically address the changes, like you got further away from the actual event, but that doesn't mean the changes were fixed. Does that make sense?


0:14:26.5 S2: It totally does, it's like a metaphor would be like blowing up a balloon slowly over a long period of time, and then when it deflates, it's not back to its working place. It looks much different and there has to be some work to be done to get it back into that, we can't just let it sit in a way, it's like it's just gonna find its own kind of place to fall into, so to speak, rather than bringing it back together functionally. 


0:15:07.1 S1: Yeah, yes. And again, it's not just doing squats or doing kegels or doing ab work, you need specific direction of, and it has to be unique to you, because the way you carried your baby, it might be different from somebody else. And so it's having that expert view of what you're needing and when you need it and how to help you get there because... I can give one person an exercise and I have a totally different reason why I'm giving that exercise to somebody else. I have different focuses of it, but to get back to your other question of that holistic approach, when you are pregnant, you have a baby, and again, you can have these issues without being a mom, but you have a baby pushing up against your diaphragm, and so the diaphragm forms the top of your core, and is going to change how you breathe. If you have a baby pushing up against your diaphragm, it's gonna change how you breathe, and breathing, how you breathe is so important. Also, as far as how your mental health is, because if you breathe shallow, you're gonna be more in a sympathetic...


0:16:20.3 S1: state. Okay, so think about this, like your fight or flight tiger is chasing you. Even if it's small hits of a tiger is chasing you type of a feel, and that's gonna amp you up and make you anxious and overwhelmed, but again, if you can have direction of how to get out of that and recalibrate your breathing and recalibrate your body, and these things are, it's not just about like I'm telling, I never tell people to just relax because I think that's the worst thing to tell somebody.


0:16:52.8 S2: It's the worst thing. Especially women, when people tell us “just relax”. Nothing makes me more on edge than hearing “just relax”. 


0:17:00.1 S1: I don't tell people that. Instead, I will give them specific direction, like actionable items. You know? Position your body this way, breathe this way, breathe here, and it's not just about all of that, but teaching women how to connect their body so that they can breathe better. Like all muscles of the body, diaphragm, pelvic floor included, will only work if they're in a position to work. So I want you to think about that. Your bicep, because your elbow. It's just easy. It's an easy example. Right, so if I told my toddler to make a muscle, he's gonna flex his arm, right, he's gonna do something like this, bend his elbow, because that's how your bicep is strongest. But, if my elbow were straight, I would be using different muscles. Does that make sense? Right, so depending on the position that you're putting your body in, so this is posture, this is body mechanics, this is just... Again, if we think about all the changes that happened in pregnancy, the muscle tightnesses that happened, that's going to change how you breathe, how you use your diaphragm, how you use your core and your pelvic floor, and so again, it's like you need to re-learn, recalibrate your positioning. 


0:18:20.5 S1: And when I say posture, so, oftentimes when I tell people posture, they sit up straight, they tense up, they throw their shoulders back, but that is not good posture because you are just tensing a muscle, you're actually disconnecting your core. And so I have a little balloon here and so I like to... So if you are listening to this, I just want you to picture a balloon and with this balloon, you can think about your core like a balloon, where the top is your diaphragm, and the bottom is your pelvic floor, and then the surrounding sides are your deep abdominal muscles. And so during pregnancy, these get... You have an abdominal separation that happens, although there are things that you can do during pregnancy to mitigate how much abdominal separation you have, but that's a different topic. So that will happen, and then depending on positioning, and now we're thinking postpartum, right, and so you might still have an abdominal separation or posture-wise, you're like, maybe contorting your body or you’re thinking and sitting up so straight or you’re slouchy, or you’re sitting side to side or carrying your baby, and now maybe one side is tight and it's going to impact the whole balloon and how everything would work together. So again, that holistic approach, if you think about if a car is gonna hit you, what do you do? 


0:19:50 S2: Tense up. 


0:19:56.0 S1: You might gasp, right? You would gasp. So stress, overwhelm, anxiety, that will change your breath pattern. But how you breathe impacts your pelvic floor because it is the top of your core, and so there are lots of ways that people breathe. Like that is a very good design. There are lots of ways that people breathe because you need to breathe to live, right? Kind of like, there are lots of ways that people walk. So as a physical therapist, I will help people after an ankle sprain re-learn how to walk or after a knee thing and just make sure that they're walking the best way. But you can probably understand that if somebody is limping along, technically they're walking, but you can maybe see like, “Oh, that person might have hip pain later”, “that person might have back pain later”, or “that person right now has knee pain”. Does that make sense? So, you are technically breathing, that is a good thing, but I can also see how if people are breathing different ways, later, that can cause issues.


0:21:01.8 S2: Oh, I can 100% agree with that. That's huge. Breath work is even in our kind of tangenting slightly, but how we live our day-to-day lives, and I am constantly up. My shoulders are up if I'm on my computer and shallow breaths and then I start to hyper-ventilate or I might have a lot of anxiety, and I could see that playing into this as well, into the whole health of the abdominals, pelvic floor, all of it working together.


0:21:40.8 S1: Exactly. And the way I like to explain it to people is, there are lots of ways that you can do breath work. Just like if you were... And I think that this is an easy example, I’m gonna kind of use some examples here. If you were training for a 5K, let's say you wanna run a race. You might look at a program and it would say, “run two miles this day, three miles this day, increase your speed, increase your… now is a rest day”, whatever it is, that would be like the program. But what I'm gonna look at... And that's good, that's good. But what I'm looking at are the mechanics of how you are running, so if we think about this in terms of breath work and how the core works together, I'm not talking about breathing in for a count of four, exhaling for five or six. I'm not talking about breath technique that way, what I'm talking about are the mechanics of how you're breathing. Positioning your body in a way to use the right muscles when you are breathing to impact your core. And kind of funny, but when people are doing my breathing exercises, they will tell me their abs are sore.


0:22:59.5 S2: Wow. That’s probably because the breath is done properly and different muscles or portions of the muscle are activated that hadn't been activated in a while.


0:23:11.8 S1: Exactly, exactly. So breathing is a really great ab exercise, and if we think about the functionality of what we talked about earlier, I'm a huge proponent for bringing this functionally into your life so that you don't have to spend an hour of your time that as a mom, you probably don't have. And that way it makes it very tangible to improve and just progress yourself and recalibrate and feel good.


0:23:42.7 S2: That’s huge. Saving time for mom is one of the most precious things ever. So that's a win-win, ladies.


0:23:52.5 S1: Yeah, if you can do this while you are driving in the car, while you're doing the dishes, while you are lifting your child, learning how to move your body in a safe way, in a way that helps your back pain, helps your mid-back pain, your shoulders, your neck, your pelvic floor, stops leaking, makes you feel more powerful and strong. That is the boat that I come from. That is how I approach this.


0:24:22.4 S2: That is really eye-opening. That is something that... Just bringing awareness to this and that this is available, I think is gonna be huge for women. And it kind of leads me into my next question, how do the needs of the pelvic floor and the health of the pelvic floor change in different seasons of a woman's life? From puberty, child-bearing years, perimenopause, menopause and post, is there different things we can do during those different seasons?


0:24:56.8 S1: Yeah, so I was thinking about this question, and my first instinct was that it doesn't matter, the muscles are the muscles, right? Because that's where I'm coming from. Your uterus is gonna change as you go through and your hormones are gonna change as you go through different seasons of your life, but then I'm looking at the muscles and those don't change as far as how they should work. But there are a few things that you can think about, just small things here. So, my daughter, she's two. And it is by design that kids can control their bladder when they start to move, when they start to walk, because that's when you are challenging the different muscles around your hips and your pelvis. Does that make sense? 


0:25:38 S2: That does make sense. Yeah. 


0:25:51 S1: Yeah. Everything is starting to wake up. You're moving your body dynamically. You're giving that control through your pelvis, your hips, your core, because you're loading it in different positions. So that, again, you can have pelvic floor issues, bladder leakage without being a mom or before becoming a mom, and I was in that boat. But there are so many variables that come with that, so then you have to think of how you're breathing, how you're loading your body, maybe you're not moving through your hips the best way, like you're doing a squat or you're doing bending type movements, or you're running, but you might not be using the best mechanics for that. So if you are in the boat of, you're not a mom yet or you are just not a mom, and you're having these issues, it's looking at how your body works together. And then when you're pregnant, pain in pregnancy, again, your pelvic floor is in the middle of your pelvis, and during pregnancy is having to do more work. And so any time a muscle is doing more work, so if you were to flex your biceps for three hours, don't do this, but if you were to flex your bicep for three hours it’s gonna hurt.


0:27:08.2 S1: It's gonna feel icky. Yeah, it's gonna hurt, maybe your elbow, shoulder, neck, other things are gonna start to hurt, and so it's calming those muscles down, letting other muscles show up, try to mitigate as many changes as possible during pregnancy by having the awareness, the specific guidance of how to move your body in pregnancy, and in that way, you're also going to protect yourself against... You're going to have an abdominal separation that happens, but if you can mitigate that, it’s a better. it’s a good idea, right? And then also, if you can calm down, so during pregnancy it’s a really good... It's a really good thing to be able to connect with your pelvic floor, not only from a pain perspective, pain in pregnancy, where you're getting that side joint pain or the fire crotch, the pubic bone pain, that's what it's, street name, fire crotch or sciatica, any of those things can be pelvic floor. So, and then during childbirth, so the pelvic floor, I like to say the pelvic floor is the gatekeeper. So your pelvic floor does not push your baby out. Your uterus does. Your uterus will contract and your pelvic floor needs to get out of the way, but if you have not connected with your pelvic floor, then you...


0:28:40.8 S1: It's gonna be very difficult to do that. And so then you're having to bear down, push, strain, meanwhile, your pelvic floor is like combating, 'cause you're like, “oh, we're supposed to brace against this”, and so that increases your risk of tearing and childbirth trauma and prolapse.


0:28:57.9 S2: That is fascinating, just even knowing this, my mind is connecting. It's like if we can connect our brains, our nervous system to those functionally, connect that to the thought, even the awareness of the pelvic floor to begin with, we can start to gain that control and gain that proper functional-functionality of that muscle group that's just... I'm geeking out, I hope our listeners are geeking out over this... It's like, thinking, it's working smarter, not harder, really.


0:29:35.3 S1: Exactly. Exactly. During again, the birth with my son was... I didn't know any of this stuff, right? And then with Elena, I was able to use all of it. And it was beautiful. There was pressure and there were things like that, but I was able to just be in my zone because I had practiced. I had practiced and connected, and I didn't have any pain during that pregnancy versus when I was pregnant with my son, my leg would give out getting off the couch or I had to… It would be debilitating just... And I haven't active, I'm active, so it was hard to do the things I wanted to with all of that pain. I was like, maybe I should get a pregnancy belt, maybe I should get this, that, or the other thing, and it's like, “you don't need those things”. You need to learn how to use your body and learning how to move through your hips and do different positions where you can just really naturally open your pelvic floor because again, muscles work around the position you put them in, right. And so just like your bicep, if you were to bend your elbow, you're gonna use that muscle if you...


0:30:43.6 S1: If your elbow is straight, you're not using that muscle. And so by positioning your pelvis in different positions, you're going to help your body either use those muscles or not use those muscles, and a baby has to get out of here, right? So, knowing how to position and connect and really be able to open and calm and just put yourself in that zen, I was gonna say relaxed, but this zen… this zen state where you can calm and open and it's just going to... If you're in that like, “oh”, trying to push a baby out and strain, everything is gonna be tense, including your pelvic floor, if you are up here tensing your body, everything is tensing. 


0:31:29.7 S2: Oh, that is so true. And we are tense with stress levels being so high. It's so easy. I feel- I'm tense all the time, and I can imagine any of our listeners are, struggle with tension as well. Tension headaches, tension...


0:31:48.4 S1: Yeah, so just having this awareness of how to connect everybody, all the muscles, the body parts, positioning, and so that would be during childbirth and then postpartum, you have to recalibrate the body like I've already talked about, and then when you’re heading into the later years of your life and you're having the changes that happen with menopause, what I like to tell people is, if you have a higher threshold, there's less likelihood that you're going to break down. So, if you think about this, the better your body works together, the stronger you are, but not just doing kegels, 'cause I don't give kegels to anybody, so not just flexing the muscle, it's getting your body to work really well together and then building strength evenly, 'cause that's what you need. You need everybody to be balanced and coordinated, and if one part is kind of trying to do everything, then that's gonna cause a problem. So, in a balanced way, getting everybody to work together safely. If you are stronger, there's less likelihood that even though you're having the hormonal shifts of less support, because that impacts the pelvic floor the estrogen- when the estrogen drops... So, when you just have that higher threshold of everybody working together, then even though you have those dips, you're not going to go below that dip of leaking issues.


0:33:17.0 S1: Does that make sense?


0:33:18.7 S2: It does, it's like you're better preparing yourself for different seasons of life and with a better prep, your body can handle the impacts of the next season to come.


0:33:31.0 S1: Exactly, and that's not to say you can impact your pelvic floor at any stage, if you're pregnant or going through childbirth or postpartum, or even if you're 20 years postpartum or I've helped a gal that was in their 80s. It's not as easy, I'll say that, but it's a better idea to attack these things when they're happening or starting to happen versus later. But you can still have an impact.


0:34:03.2 S2: Angela, this has been such an insightful conversation, and I just- thank you so much for your knowledge and I just wanna share with our listeners too, you guys, this is gonna be a three-part series that we're doing on the pelvic floor. We're gonna deep dive even more in the episodes to come, and I'd love to get people connected with you. How can people find you? Are you on social media? Give us the goods, girl.


0:34:26.7 S1: Yes, so I do calls with people. That is how I'm able to support my clients the best, because I wanna know what's going on, what you've tried, what things are working, what things aren't working, where you wanna go, because I give my clients personalized support and so that's how I wanna support any mom out there that is struggling with bladder leakage, if you wanna get back running and jumping and just live in your life without the fear or the frustration of bladder leakage. And so I am on Instagram. @bladderleaksolution is my handle. I'm also on Facebook. I have a Facebook group that's open to anybody that wants to join. I give little tidbits in there, “Bladder Leak Solution for Active Moms” is the group for that. And then also, if you are just ready to jump in and take care of this, you can apply to work with me.

0:35:23.1 S2: Wonderful, thank you so much for sharing that with us, and I'm sure our listeners are gonna get so much out of this series that we're doing, so... Thanks again for being on the show, and thank you guys for tuning in. We will see you again next time. Thank you so much for tuning in to today's episode. We hope you got a lot out of it. If you haven't already, be sure to subscribe to our podcast so you can stay up-to-date with our latest episodes. Also, you can find us on social media by searching, Checkable Health. We look forward to seeing you again soon.