EP32 How Can Women Get What They Want Out of Their Career and LifeCheckable Health
Colleen Bordeaux is the Founder and CEO of Growth, Inc., which aims to close the confidence gap in women and encourage them to recognize their worth and reach their full potential. Colleen is a co-founder and leader of Deloitte’s Workforce Experience by Design, and her writings have been published in everything from the Huffington Post to the Chicago Sun-Times. Her book, “Am I Doing This Right?” became an immediate #1 Amazon Best Seller.
In this podcast episode, Patty sits down with Colleen to discuss the confidence gap in women and how damaging it can be for a woman’s professional career and personal development, and how her company, Growth, Inc., aims to change that.
Learn more about Growth Inc. on their website.
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All right. Hi everyone. This is Patty Post, your host of the Persevere Podcast, and this is the podcast that will inspire you to keep persevering through the hardships that we face every day in business. The title today is “How Can Women Get What They Want Out of Their Career and Life.” Women make up 51% of the workforce, but why are we still trailing in equal pay CEO positions of Fortune 500 companies? [00:02:00] We only receive 2% of the venture capital funding and we hold less than 20% of the board seats of Fortune 500 companies. How can we, as women, change the state of affairs for our gender and for generations to come? That is the topic today. My guest is Colleen Bordeaux, who is co-founder of Growth, Inc.
Colleen, thank you so much for joining me.
Thanks so much and happy to be here.
So let me just tee you up a little bit here of what we're gonna be talking about. I was really interested in you because I found you on Instagram and sort of, uh, had the crush there that's like, oh my gosh, what a strong woman and you are cheeky and you have such relevant content and it just really hit home with me as being a female founder. And I don't like to blame, I like to take control and say, “Okay, how, how can I do things better?” And [00:03:00] that’s how I, I really digested your content of, okay, I learned something. So let's talk about this. So you are on a mission to help women identify their superpower through getting clear of what you want out of life. But I loved this when you wrote, “What might happen if every woman felt as powerful as she really is, and then use power to shape the world around her”. So you being on a mission to identify your superpower, of getting clear of what you want in. You created Growth, Inc. and it's an online communication coaching platform. And you're also the author of, “Am I Doing it Right?” which you published now three years ago this month. And you also have, you're a career driven woman. So you work at Deloitte and you're an intrapreneur because you started that workforce by design product offering. And as I said, you're most known for your Growth, Inc., with over 23,000 followers. So we have a lot to talk about here [00:04:00] because you're super unapologetic about what you put out there. And I'd love to just first start out by how'd you do this? How'd you come up with this and what was that? What's that founder story for you, Colleen?
So I am going to back up maybe three years ago and share where I was in my career. I think I had gotten promoted to senior manager. I'd been working, in a, you know, management consulting capacity for many years. I've had a wonderful career doing that. Been so well supported in my career, and yet felt this immense pressure to fit myself into a very narrow set of parameters in order to be respected and taken seriously. Whether that was real or perceived, it was something that I deeply felt. And I like to describe it as like, feeling like I needed to be in a black and tailored suit, using words like “leverage” and “synergize'' and sort of clicking into that like myopic corporate way of operating. And yet I had this, you know, very [00:05:00] kind of dynamic creative side to my personality and, you know, alongside building my career at Deloitte, I gotten like the basic compliance forms to, you know, write for Refinery29 and do some blogging and writing of my own and really keep that creative side to myself alive and I had sort of built this organic readership. I'd been doing it really in a really small, quiet way, but built a readership over the course of time and sort of got inspired to write a book and had to kind of go through the process of taking that leap of faith in myself that I wanna put something out into the world and I have to learn how to care more about that, then how it will be received and also get over this fear of my very bright colleagues not taking me seriously because of a creative venture project that I invested in with nobody telling me that it was okay to do it. So, it all sort of started then, taking that leap of faith and, and publishing a book and, and then sort of exploring that feeling that I had, like, why is it that the best parts of me feel unwelcome where I work? And how do I sort of unpack that for myself [00:06:00] because it's not sustainable and I'm not even sure if it's true. Right? So, long story short, Deloitte sponsored me in taking six months off to really study empathy, creativity. I went to go work with the Art Institute of Chicago in the Second City, which is an improv, an improv training center and then do some work with universities studying this. That all started in January of 2020. World blew up, created this space to kind of come back to Deloitte and think about how might we kind of take what I've learned and, and really go deep on worker experiences. If I feel this way as a privileged white woman, who's been so well supported, how do people who check even fewer boxes than me feel, like we have a really big problem to solve. And that's sort of like created this practice, started my intrapreneurship journey. And then at the same time, as I started sharing my personal reasons behind that sabbatical feeling like this pressure to fit a mold, so many women just said, “I feel exactly the same way and I have never even had the words for it”. I thought it was amazing. And I started to just start collecting data through conversations and started to do some research and then [00:07:00] learned that a typical woman reaches peak confidence in life at age nine. Wants to change one or more aspects of her physical appearance by the time she's 16, she starts her career wanting to reach the highest levels of leadership in her field yet loses that ambition within the first two years. Like there's something pervasive happening to women and I wanted to figure out how can I take what I've learned to sort of make a dent in that. And that's where sort of Growth, Inc. started and any entrepreneurship journey, it's a lot of trying things, testing, failing, starting over, learning from the people that you're serving and kind of expanding from there. So, many things to every single woman who's part of the Growth, Inc. community who sort of helped me hone in on the right problems to solve.
So we identified the problems. Those are huge. What are the solutions then that Growth Inc. offers. What is that training education? How do you change our mindset, Colleen?
If we zoom out here and we think like, there are certainly systemic factors and social [00:08:00] determinants behind the experiences that women are having at work. Right? And so a big focus in a lot of our content, social content at Growth, Inc. is sort of naming what those are. Right? Sort of pointing out the things that we have maybe never even thought about or questioned in our upbringing as women that are actually teaching us to diminish our value, to make ourselves smaller, to make other people more comfortable and these sort of pervasive, culturally accepted beliefs and ways of operating that just need to be called out. And so, kind of naming some of those systemic things while then also bringing it back to personal agency, right? Like waiting on the world to change has fundamentally failed.
Fundamentally, like look at the outcomes around us. Right? We're not doing enough. So I went to work, trying to think about, you know, if we can kind of name the bigger picture, right. We have to be real about what that is, but then operating within that system, how can we start to come back to what we as individual women can do for [00:09:00] ourselves to really stand in our power and use our agency to create the kind of outcomes we want in our own lives and like have that ripple effect on the world around us? And I learned there's a great psychologist, Nathaniel Brandon, who studied the psychology of confidence and self-esteem, and he found that confidence is really correlated with a set of six specific mental habits. They're like ways of thinking that theoretically can be practiced and learned. And as I started learning about these habits, they like map almost exactly to the book that I wrote a few years earlier. Right. It was like going through this own personal process. And so we did some testing, like, can you actually start to practice the habit of accepting yourself, the habit of living in the moment, living consciously instead of trying to ruminate over your past, or, you know, dwell on the future? And so we brought a group of women through a program where we sort of co-created and tested this using collateral from a lot of different thinkers and [00:10:00] researchers and, you know, there's certainly things I think you can do to challenge your own thinking and start to build some of that. But the biggest “aha'' was like, how do we make this super tangible so that people have something that they can practice in real life, every single day at work, with their partners at home, in their communities. And it all started to sort of boil around like how you show up and communicate in your environment. And so we're now taking what we learned through those six habits and starting to bake it into the communication skills topic area.
Fascinating. Do you have any, do you have a story of one of those participants that show like the 180 degree change that they made or is there anything that comes to mind or a particular subject?
So I think every single woman came into, we just did a beta test of this course, which is called Communicate Your Worth. Every single woman came to that course because they knew that they were [00:11:00] worthy. Right? Like I, I have built a, a career. I have confidence in the outcomes I've created. I know that I can be doing more. I am feeling frustrated because I'm looking around and I'm seeing other people who are less talented, less qualified than me getting their ideas heard, influencing people around them, elevating their careers and something I'm doing that like needs to change. Right? And so, I'll give you a few examples because there are a couple themes that came out. I think the first theme was that every single woman in the course felt uncomfortable saying that they were excellent at what they do, even though they were probably the most brilliant group of women I've ever been on a zoom call with.
We had a data scientist who literally processes data. She's paid to draw meaning out of data and tell a story to influence others and she said, “I have no idea how to actually quantify my own impact even though this is literally my field”. [00:12:00]
And that was another thing that came out that they didn't know how to quantify their value in a way that was tangible. And it was related to this third theme, which was really, I am uncomfortable taking credit for anything, unless I personally was 100% responsible for it. Meaning anything that I collaborated on that I did with a team or led with a team. Right? So learning all of that, we had several examples of women that were able to package what they were doing to make a case for promotion that they didn't even realize was possible. We had one woman who was going through a career change and she had been working for many years in a kind of fast paced tech world and didn't feel like her experience translated to a lot of the types of companies that she wanted to work at, but learning how to like quantify her work and think bigger picture about her contributions beyond her individual focus was huge. It [00:13:00] helped her to get a position that she really wanted. So I could talk about this for hours. I'm obviously very passionate about it, but it was really fun to be able to watch these women sort of connect the dots, learn from each other and realize, you know, it's not just me who's been struggling to do this and learn some of those tactical ways to show up differently in their day to day.
It's life changing, literally life changing for these women.
‘Cause when we feel stuck in our careers and we're up against something and you don't know how to change that something, I think that's where even women will fall out of the workforce because it's so frustrating. Right?
It's so frustrating. And I think also this experience of being unheard, like we know that women are two and a half times more likely to be interrupted than men. Right? And I think that when you're feeling unheard, when you don't necessarily have the skill to stand in your value and show up and own that, and then you're also being talked [00:14:00] over, not invited to conversations where you really wanna be, that actually harms your confidence, right? Because if we know that, part of that taking action every day and sort of seeing the impact of what you're doing either builds or breaks your confidence and that sense of the value that you bring. So I think it's, you know, important on so many levels.
You mentioned habits. What are some of the habits that we can incorporate? I think of Mel Robbins, she has the high five and just having that every morning. What are some of the habits that you learned from your research that should be incorporated every day and habits are hard to start. So I also am curious about that, of how to make, get it to be a habit.
Yep. I obviously mentioned like the habit of living consciously or living in the moment and there's great books and resources that could help you do that. I mentioned that the Habit of Self-acceptance is a big one. I have a whole story to tell you on that topic and how big of a focus that's becoming [00:15:00] in our big launch. But one of the ones I think is so pertinent in today's world of work, where so many women are feeling burned out and unfulfilled and overstretched, and like they're bending over backwards for everybody and don't have time for themselves is the habit of living purposefully. And one of the exercises that we work through is really recognizing that you have to take a step back from just the overwhelming swirl of your day to day, and really get clear on what you actually value. When you're feeling unfulfilled and burned out, it's typically because your values are encountering a conflict, right? And we're not taught to think consciously about what do I value, what matters most to me, what lights me up, gives me energy, brings me joy? What does the opposite and how do I start to more strategically influence the balance of those things in my day to day so that I feel like I am living more purposefully, getting closer to my purpose? And, you know, we're [00:16:00] sold this idea that like your purpose is a dream job or an around the world trip or some like, you know, it's your child and like maybe there's pieces of those that contribute to your sense of fulfillment and purpose in life but in reality, it's all about how you're using your energy in a way that like fills you up and gives back to other people. And so, that's actually a template I would be happy to give to your audience, if it would be useful, we do, we have a template that's all about doing three things. The first thing is getting super tactical about what lights you up from your day to day, like when you wake up in the morning to when you go to bed at night, the things that actually you enjoy doing from how you take your coffee, the people you're working with, how you're getting to work, what you're wearing, like those things that you don't even think about, getting it all on paper, and then, sorry, my phone is ringing and buzzing my microphone.
Oh, I was like, I wonder if that's mine.
It was me. So doing, getting that all on paper, spending an hour actually thinking about those like little things and then doing the opposite. What do you [00:17:00] hate? What drains your energy, sucks your joy that you literally cannot deal with? Spending an hour there and then coming back to both lists after taking a break and identifying your non-negotiables. I must have these things in my day to day, and I absolutely cannot have these. And it's a really helpful tool for not only like making some changes about what am I actually doing that I should stop or unwind myself from or do more of, right, but also thinking about as you're applying for jobs and considering new opportunities, or, you know, people bringing you questions and new obligations, is it fitting this filter of your purpose and if not, then save that space for what's gonna bring you more joy.
What type of woman would this work for? Is there a certain demographic of female?
So we serve predominantly women who are kind of millennial and mid-career plus and almost all of the women [00:18:00] in the Growth, Inc. community work in corporate or academic or STEM jobs. So Fortune 100, 500, we have women that have come through our programs that, you know, are professors at Ivy League universities that are scientists, that are chemists and so most of them work in male dominated fields and I think have had similar experiences to the women that helped to create this from the very onset and kind of can empathize with that feeling of being in an environment where you're pressured to abandon who you are in order to fit what success looks like and whether or not that is a real phenomenon that's, you know, intentionally created, I actually don't think it is. I think it's the experience of just being in that day in and day out that can kind of kill your confidence and in my experience, thinking about my, that stat of like losing your ambition to reach the highest levels of leadership in your field within two years, I went through that. Looking around, I'm like, I don't think I wanna be like, [00:19:00] Bob, thanking his wife on the stage of the conference. Like that's not possible for me. Like, I don't have a wife who's gonna like, do everything to like, help me do that. So anyway, I think it's, you know, foundationally can help every woman, but that's the women that we serve.
Medical devices is where I come from. And I think of, at each of the companies that I either consulted with or worked for, there's always the women's group and women of med tech as well. So if you, if there's a woman that's listening to this and she works for a big corporation, is Growth Inc. a training that she could recommend to that training manager or into that women's group that they could participate in and purchase?
Absolutely. We've had a number of participants that have come through our programs that said, you know, we want to figure out, can you give a discount if we have, you know, like 12 women in our group that want to go through this program. So we've been kind of working on a case by case basis to figure out [00:20:00] what that looks like and any woman that wants to come through our programs has the power to kind of visit our site and apply, we serve almost exclusively B2C and we've done some work with associations and universities as well. So tell them to reach out.
Super interesting. Have you found that when you have these groups, that the women then create relationships with one another and after the training that they have, you know, remain that synergistic relationship?
So that's actually one of the things that brings me the most joy is to watch the women kind of create their own communities as a result of coming through this program and the other programs we've had. And we've also seen, and I had this very early stage idea, but since we have so many women that are in leadership positions and hiring, we've had women that are earlier in their careers, looking for opportunities and been able to do some of that matchmaking and sort of create career opportunities with, for people who, you know, really want to work in a more equitable environment and [00:21:00] what greater place to find opportunities than kind of in the same sort of affinity group, like Growth, Inc.
That is so cool. I love that. Then it's like a recruitment tool. Totally.
Recruitment opportunity there.
Yeah, I always think of mentoring. It's just like, from a founder's perspective, it's so lonely and especially in, I think in med tech, there's very few women CEOs or female CEOs and in areas, I love it when I can meet others that are doing the same thing that I am. And because I like meeting women that are coming up and I want to inspire them, but sometime, but I wanna meet others that have already been there and looks like that's what you, that's what you're offering now. So I'm curious about your Instagram because how are people finding you right now? Is your Instagram the opportunity, have you used it as your marketing platform to grow Growth, Inc.?
Yeah, so I [00:22:00] had to make some very strategic choices. Building a business, I also work a demanding job. So how am I gonna do this in a way that is scalable and doubling down on digital marketing has been where my focus has rested over the course of the year plus we've been in business. And so the customer typical customer journey, our women will discover our message. We've had a number of like viral Reels and posts that really name that bigger systemic challenge that typically introduces this element of like recognition and surprise. Right? I think and I'm hoping by the way that like the flipping the script things that we say to women all the time, but would never dream of saying to a man, because it is, it is so inherently diminishing and disrespectful, like watching that kind of take off has been really fun because I also think it's tapping into women that may not have even had a name for the challenge they've been experiencing.
But then they'll come into our community and then we had some like paid workshops and smaller opportunities that are really targeted and tactical. And we'll typically kind [00:23:00] of take a first course, check out the book and kind of go from there. So, we've really learned a ton about how to serve our customers who work demanding jobs, have really busy lives. How do we make this as tangible and useful as possible and it's been, you know, awesome to be able to watch Instagram become sort of this both community tool and marketing tool for us.
I know I really resonated with one of them. And I thought back to when I was first raising my angel round, that I had a number of, well one, I only have one female investor and I have 11 investors and so I love all of my male investors, I'm not saying that, but it is very interesting that I've only pitched to one woman and she did invest. And even some of the, I guess, angel groups that are female, you know, med tech is very risky. So I, that was unfortunate for me, but from [00:24:00] those men that I was pitching to in the angel round, many of them said to me, “You have three kids, how are you gonna manage a startup and your kids?” And it wasn't until I spoke with a woman that was in WBL, I was talking with her about the challenges and just happened to come from a meeting where this gentleman asked me that. And she said, “Why don't you ask him what, does he ask that question to the male founders? What do they do if they have four kids or what does your wife do?”, because I've been asked what my husband does and it's just those questions it puts you in a position that in your head, you want to say something, but then what comes out of your mouth is polite because you don't wanna rock the boat and you don't wanna be put in the position as you know, oh, you're that type of woman and just a few things that you’ve posted I'm like, “Oh yeah, she totally nailed it.”
Thank you. No, and I think that equity starting at home [00:25:00] is a really important theme and I am a bonafide millennial and I am married. I don't have kids yet, but my husband and I, going into our marriage agreed that if we choose to have children, it's a split, right? Like, I am not interested in the narrative of motherhood that preceded me of doing all of the work, being a martyr, bending over backwards for everybody, having no time to myself. Right? And I think there are many, many couples that have that same mindset, but then they bump into this outdated way of thinking about parenting in the world and especially in corporate America, that has tended to be male dominated where the figure of a CEO thanking his wife for taking care of everything so he could focus on his career is sort of the predominant belief system.
Whereas in reality, like it just doesn't resonate. And so, and what you said, like how do you respond in the moment and something that even in sort of naming some of these issues, [00:26:00] creating the Reels and it's been so fun to use humor, right, as a way to sort of defang it a little bit, but how do you do that in a moment that helps people sort of open their minds without shutting down the conversation or offending them and I've been watching that in my workplace as well and there are a lot of men that I work with that are like my husband in the sense that they want to be an equal partner in raising children.
And so taking six months of paternity leave, right? Or asking to leave at two to go pick their child up and I've been paying a lot of attention to how people respond as those micro conversations are happening. Actually, even today I was on a call and my client, it was fantastic, was talking about, he was taking his kids to camp. So he had an off period that day and one of the senior managers on my team said, “That sounds like fun. Like a fun, nice afternoon”. And in my mind, I just got, you know, like what? And so I said, “No, that [00:27:00] sounds like parenting”. It sounds like a different type of work than sitting on a zoom and looking at a stale PowerPoint slide, but it's work and, you know, let's move on with the conversation.
Like even those little things, this idea that taking care of your kids, if it's like not directly translated to the value of what your company does, must be fun or fluff is ridiculous. Right? Ridiculous. So, anyway, there's a whole, I think there's a whole nother movement coming around. How do you sort, sort of educate people in the moment?
Yeah, I love it. And you, I remember the Reel of when you are interrupted or when you hear, when you're a part of another woman being interrupted, stop that person stop that male and say, no, let her finish. And ‘cause sometimes I think that they don't realize and they need, it's just, it's awareness. Right?
It's awareness for sure. And it's not always men by the way and I think that I've been thinking a lot about sort of like [00:28:00] women are experiencing this sort of globally, but I think the less represented you are the worse it gets and you can be experiencing that, like misogyny can be practiced by women and men. Right? And I've been paying a lot of attention to that as well too. It's like, where am I maybe not even noticing somebody being talked over or not brought into the conversation and how do you like start to be a little bit more attuned to that. So in those moments you can sort of gracefully respond, go back to them. And I do practice like, “Thanks, Kamala, I'm speaking”, or “I wasn't finished” and that works well and I think a lot of people just, you know, take a step back and we're all learning together.
Yeah. They’re like, “Oh, okay. Yeah. She still has more”. And of course, if there's a mutual respect there, they’ll be like, “Oh yeah, of course. I'm, I'm so sorry”.
It's most of the time unintentional, when I've, I do it to my boys, actually I have an 18 and 16 year old and my 18 year old likes to interrupt and he like, “Oh yeah. So sorry”, like to his [00:29:00] grandma or something.
That's great, that’s all you have to do.
Yeah, exactly. And then, and he learns. Well, this was a fantastic opportunity to really be educated as well as learn of what you are doing, Colleen. Really important work that you're doing as well. And what would you say is the call to action that you would like our listeners to take, to get to know you more or even participate in what you are building? We, uh, have spent a lot of time building a community on Instagram and it is @growthincubator so that would be a great place to check us out. And we are about to launch our course, Communicate Your Worth, which I think is a really exciting opportunity. We’re limiting it like to a small number of participants, but you know, if this resonated and your listeners are interested in learning more thinking about, you know, how can we expand this program, happy to chat.
When does it start?
So it is launching next Monday.
And we are limiting it to 25 women.
And it's [00:30:00] a program that we deliver over the course of six weeks. And so for me, keeping it limited and high touch as we are kind of continuing to learn and expand this is super important and that worked really well for our beta course, which sold out in two days so I'm excited for next week.
Wow, congratulations. And that's really, hands on coaching is so beneficial to an individual and all of those exercises that you're talking about, I do with my coach or I've done with my coach and I, it's totally, fundamentally changed me as a leader and even just to recognize some of the things I didn't know I was doing and being present and you're doing great work.
Thank you. Yeah and I learned from the women that come through every program, and that's also such an important part of this process. I think people don't buy a course. They buy the transformation. How is their life can be better and different as a result of what they learn? And so wanting to go all in on making sure every single woman experiences that transformation [00:31:00] before we go larger is super critical to me. And as we know in today's world, experience is everything. So making sure that it is a phenomenal experience for every woman and I've seen people who try to go too big, too fast, and then you, that's where you lose people. So keeping it, keeping it small and high touch is part of our mission right now.
If you had a retreat at some point, Colleen, I would definitely attend and I could probably get some people to attend too. So maybe that's in your roadmap.
Yes. You know, it's so funny that you mention that because we had a retreat planned last year in the fall, and then, you know, we don't need to talk about what happened last year.
So we should definitely talk about, I would love to get some of your thoughts on how we might structure that, share what we were thinking, kind of go from there.
Oh, yeah, that would be great. And we could get some listeners from the Persevere Podcast. That would be, that'd be great.
That'd be great. We could all come to LA. I already have the venue, which is phenomenal.
Okay. Let's do it.
We've just gotta lineup [00:32:00] some of the speakers and yeah, it'll be great. It'll be awesome.
Okay. So there's my call to action. So I had a call to action at the end of this podcast to say if there are any listeners that have, that would like to be a guest, or if you know of a female founder or a female entrepreneur that would be a special guest on the Persevere Podcast, please send me a direct message. I am @pattypostceo on Instagram and then Patty Gaslin Post on LinkedIn and as well as, hey, let's, let's talk about a retreat. If you're interested in that and you would wanna be a speaker then message us.
And follow Growth, Inc., lastly. Yes. Awesome. Well, thank you so much. This was great.
Thank you, Colleen. It was an absolute pleasure and good luck with the launch of this next session of Growth, Inc.
Thank you for listening to The Persevere Podcast, powered by Checkable Medical. Head over to perseverepodcast.com for notes, [00:33:00] links and additional resources from today's show. To continue hearing insights and gaining knowledge from those persevering, succeeding and making their dream a reality, be sure to subscribe through your favorite podcast app. Now go make it happen.
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