Did you know that the opal stone is symbolic of health, healing and resiliency? That’s how Tammy Lee, founder of Opal Cool and Onyx Cool, named her health and wellness brands that use plant-based cooling technology for a variety of ailments. Opal Cool focuses on women’s issues in every stage of their life, from breastfeeding to menopause.
Tammy is speaking with Patty Post of Checkable Health about Opal Cool’s products, as well as Onyx Cool’s line of injury repair and recovery products. Both brands make products that are backed by clinical studies to heal sports injuries, soothe breast pain, and relieve pain from hot flashes and reduce their frequency.
Hot flashes are synonym with menopause but there are many of things that can cause them, such as MS (multiple sclerosis) or chemotherapy. These products are also proven to be effective for women or anyone with depleting hormones. Unlike other cooling therapy brands, these “wearable therapies” don’t need to be placed in the freezer, are safe to apply directly to the skin, and maintain a cool temperature for a longer period of time than ice.
Tammy is hoping to help women and men with her women-owned company, so tune in to learn more about how these products work and what she’s doing to give back!
Topics discussed in this episode:
- Tammy explains what Onyx Cool and Opal Cool are and how they help
- Opal Cool’s latest women’s healthcare product, Gal Pals
- How these products work without going in the freezer
- Clinical studies that back their claims
- Marketing Opal Cool products to women
- Women’s health products in the workplace
- Where you can buy Onyx and Opal products
- Success for post-op surgery patients
- Future ventures for Onyx Cool and Opal Cool
Find Tammy Lee on LinkedIn!
Learn more about the Onyx Cool and Opal Cool products:
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Connect with Patty Post:
Checkable Health is revolutionizing healthcare with fast and accurate at-home test kits, telehealth services, and a line of wellness supplements designed to keep you feeling your best while saving valuable time and money.
At the forefront of home healthcare, Checkable is developing the first FDA-approved at-home strep test. Paired with a proprietary digital telemedicine platform to instantly connect consumers with healthcare professionals, you can skip the doctor's office and start treatment fast, right from the comforts of your home.
Along with the at-home strep test, Checkable offers an array of wellness supplements and a multitude of resources, including podcasts and blogs, to help keep consumers in the know about different aspects of their health from top to bottom. And with more home tests coming soon, Checkable puts treatment options at your fingertips, so you can focus on getting better. Visit checkablehealth.com for more info.
0:00:04 S1: Welcome to the Checkable Health Podcast, where we're helping everyday moms rethink how their healthcare starts at home for themselves and their families. This podcast is for moms to school-age children, born in the 1900s, that would buy an at-home strep test to check their child's sore-throat symptoms from home. Hi, I'm Patty Post, your host. I'm founder and CEO of Checkable Health. I'm a mother of two amazing teenage sons and one tween daughter. And I'm wife to Andrew, and we've been married almost 20 years. I believe that we should be empowered to make healthcare decisions from home. And this podcast will equip you to make better health decisions for you and your family from home. I'm interviewing clinicians, thought leaders, and experts in the field of health, so you are educated and equipped to live a healthier, better life. Today, my topic is on menopause and products that will help women that are going through menopause. We also, this product is universal because it can also be used in sports injuries. My guest is Tammy Lee, who is founder of Opal Cool and Onyx Cool. OpalCool is focused on women's health and to help with hot flashes if a woman is going through MS or has undergone chemotherapy, has really a surgence of heat in her body, mainly from hormones that are being depleted through the therapy or through going through the cycle of life, which we call menopause. This also can be used for men. She actually pointed out a very interesting fact that men going through prostate-cancer therapy can have a depletion of hormones and have hot flashes as well. What Tammy's products are, are really self-temperature monitoring products that they're not connected to anything. They keep a consistent temperature and you put them in the refrigerator and for 20 minutes, they will come out at that same temperature of the refrigerator and they'll maintain their temperature for a longer period of time than ice. And most importantly, it will be a temperature that you can apply directly onto your skin. So it is very safe. She actually has clinical data on both products. The Onyx products are used, like I said, for sports injuries, back, shoulders, knees. I actually use them for, in my family, I gave them as gifts last year to my family members. And it's just a great product to have in your house all the time instead of monkeying with the ice and the water. And there are some new technologies out there that I don't think are very effective, but they're very expensive. So we talk a lot about these different types of therapies. And I think that when we transition in life with menopause, a lot of times we don't make anyone aware of it. It can be a little bit of a stigma. I'm very thankful that there's things like World Menopause Days and there's a lot more research coming out and a lot more awareness around that menopause isn't just like a day or a month. It actually is a season of life that women go through. And Tammy is very passionate about that and her products are mainstream. Really encourage you to check her products out. We'll give all of that information. But she's a great founder and very passionate about her products. And with that, let's get into it with Tammy Lee. Tammy, thank you so much for joining me today.
0:04:01 S2: Thank you for having me on, Patty. It is really interesting because we started about the same time in our businesses, and I just think of what you're doing in terms of therapy and almost like an overlooked, I sort of think that both of the things that we're doing are sometimes overlooked because it's not like that Class III medical device. But I think it's really cool that what you have is really clinically backed, and would you please tell us what Onyx Cool is and what Opal Cool is, and how you're helping us as therapy seekers.
0:04:42 S2: Oh, well, thank you, Patty. Well, I'll start with Onyx Cool since you led with that. Onyx Cool products are a cooling technology. We call them wearable therapies, as you mentioned, and they're made with a plant-based cooling technology and we make all of our products down in Red Wing, Minnesota. So everything's manufactured here in Minnesota in the USA at a woman-owned company. So I'm pretty proud of that too. But the Onyx Cool therapy products are designed for injury repair and recovery. So if you've had a knee surgery or a knee injury, we have the Onyx Cool Knee, we've got a shoulder product, we've got a back-hip product. And then we also have moved into the heat stress and heat safety line of products with cooling vests. On our Opal side of the house, the same technology made with a plant-based cooling technology, but we really have women's health in mind with those products. So we make a cooling wrap for women who are experiencing menopausal hot flashes that's been clinically tested, and women who wore the wrap an hour in the morning and an hour at night had about a 75% reduction in the number of hot flashes. So it's worked. And we also did a clinical study with the cool wrap for women who are living with MS, multiple sclerosis, and the women who were in the clinical study for MS also had excellent results in treating their symptoms of MS. Also in the women's health line, we make a very fun product, one of my favorites called the Gal Pals. These are cooling bra inserts. And so they're great for everyone from new breastfeeding moms that are experiencing that breast pain that you have when you have a new baby to women who are recovering from a surgery, in the case of a mastectomy, for example. So these products work for everything from breast care to workout wear. So you can put them in after workouts and cool down. So all of our products have one thing in common: they're wearable therapies made with a plant-based technology all made in Red Wing, Minnesota. Wow.
0:06:29 S1: I like it that it's women-owned as well. Congratulations on that. What's interesting about these products is you don't need to put them in the freezer to make them cold. So can you tell us about that because that almost seems contradictory to what we think for therapies.
0:06:47 S2: Yeah. So most cool therapies, you're right, go in the freezer. And the danger of those kinds of products that are an ice-based product or a gel-based product is that they're really dangerously cold. So when it comes out of the freezer, of course, it's at freezing temperature. So those products, if they're left on too long, can cause ice burn or frostbite. And that's why with ice, you have to have a layer of something in between it, like a towel or a washcloth, and you have to cycle them on and off every 20 minutes. With our products, they're made with a plant-based cooling technology that goes in the refrigerator. So they come out at whatever your refrigerator is set to. Most people have it around 40 degrees, 42 degrees. So it's really comfortably cool, but not freezing cold. So safe to wear directly on the skin without any risk of ice burn or frostbite. And they'll cool in the refrigerator in about 20 to 30 minutes, depending on the coolness of your fridge, as well as the size of the device.
0:07:43 S1: Interesting. So you said that you have the clinical data. A lot of times to design a clinical study like this, it can be very overwhelming for someone, but they know that they want to make specific claims. Can you share with us the clinical study and how that was designed and then the results of that study, or of these studies? You have multiple.
0:08:07 S2: Right. Yeah. So with the Cool Wrap, the clinical study was conducted by Inglewood Hospital. And they have a Center for Integrative Health and Medicine. And so they're really into natural alternatives to hormone-replacement therapy, for example. Women that have hormone-replacement therapy are at a higher risk for heart disease, stroke, and other issues. So everybody's looking for kind of drug-free therapies. So we did a clinical study with the Cool Wrap. About 50 women were in the study. And after using the Cool Wrap for four weeks, you wear it an hour in the morning and an hour at night, what the product does is it actually builds up the resiliency of your brown adipose tissue. So the study is based on BAT tissue, brown adipose tissue. And when we're babies, we have BAT, those healthy brown fat cells, all over our bodies that keep us healthy and warm. As we get older, those cells really shrink and diminish. So this technology is really about building up the resiliency of those cells. And the product is designed accordingly. This big circle will kind of land in the middle of your back. And we still have BAT here between our shoulders. And that's actually the spot where that thermogenic hot flash originates. So by building up the resiliency of those cells with cool therapy, it actually counteracts the hot flash. So that's the science behind it. Very simple science, but proven technology without any need for hormone-replacement therapy or other drugs. So that was one study. The other study that we did, we conducted with St. Catherine's University. And they had about 150 women living with multiple sclerosis in the study. And the women that were using the Cool Wrap, 75% of the women in the study reported good to excellent results in treating their symptoms of MS. So using cool therapy for MS is well documented as a way to alleviate those symptoms. So we took a technology that has been around for a long time, phase-change material, and then really just went out to get some data-backed science to be able to take these into women's health.
0:10:04 S1: And do they wear them directly on your skin or do you need to have a barrier?
0:10:10 S2: You can wear them directly on the skin. It kind of depends on the use. A lot of women will wear them over a light, like a tank top or a light t-shirt, but you can wear it directly on the skin as well. Most women are using it like in the morning or night when they're getting ready in the morning before going to work or starting their day, or when they get home at night as they're kind of unwinding, preparing dinner, whatever it may be. So you don't have to have this on during an actual hot flash. The science is actually building up the resiliency of these cells that are here and at the base of your neck to kind of counteract that hot flash. And with MS, the science is cooling the core to help you have more energy, to help you sleep better at night and to help alleviate some of those symptoms.
0:10:54 S1: Wow. Now, because hot flashes really are, now that I'm moving into perimenopause, I'm much more aware of when women are having a hot flash or they're like, oh, I just had a hot flash, where before I would be like, whoa, what's wrong with her? Her face is getting red and she's hot. Or I remember my mom distinctly because my mom had me when she was 40. So I'm 10 and she's going through these hot flashes and stepping outside to go on the deck at a party because she was flaming. How many women right now are in the stage of menopause right now?
0:11:34 S2: Yeah. So every day in the US alone, 5,000 women enter menopause. Wow. So right now, there are about a million women in the US that are living with menopausal symptoms. And the average age that you hit menopause is 51. That's the average age for beginning menopause. And the clinical definition of menopause is really one full year of not having a menstrual cycle. So if you're on month 13 without having had a menstrual cycle, you're officially in menopause. And those symptoms can last anywhere from two years to 10 years. Some women are more fortunate than others that are living much longer with what they call their own personal summer all the time.
0:12:14 S1: Reenita Das was a guest and she's a thought leader in women's health for 30 years. And she talked about, she hates the word menopause because it's actually not a pause. It's a season of life that we have as women. And it's underfunded, it's under-researched, and there's really a lack of products in the market to help us deal with the symptoms and even help recognize the signs. So what are you doing with Opal Cool products? Who are you targeting? And how are you bringing awareness to your products to the market?
0:12:52 S2: We really build and design Opal Cool products with women in mind. We talk about it for every age and stage of life. And so for everyone from breastfeeding moms through menopause, our products can help you live a happier, healthier, fuller life. So we talk a lot about menopause and trying to help remove the taboo of menopause. It's not the end of your life, it just means a new stage of your life. And you want to live that new stage of life to its fullest potential. But when you're suffering from a hot flash, when your makeup is melting off your face or your face is in flames, it's embarrassing for women. So you think about it in the workplace, too. There's some really interesting statistics about how much menopause costs us in the workplace. And it's by not being open about it or providing solutions or support for women. So I think the first step, Patty, is really about having an open, frank conversation, which is what we're doing here today.
0:13:50 S1: Are you utilizing any health insurance? Like say someone is listening to this and they have an HSA. Could they use their HSA spending account to buy Opal Cool products?
0:14:02 S2: Yeah, that's a great question. In fact, the answer is a resounding yes. All of our products are Class I registered medical products. So whether it's Opal Cool or Onyx Cool, we can take HSA and FSA credit cards. So a lot of people do use their flex spend dollars to purchase our products. And especially at the end of the year when people are really looking for ways to spend their money in a way that's really going to benefit their health, instead of having 13 bottles of contact solution, you might rather have an Opal or Onyx Cool product.
0:14:34 S1: I can see this being really useful if you have a little mini fridge in your office. Have those readily available. And even you talked about new breastfeeding moms. I remember when I was breastfeeding and I was working and I was actually weaning off of nursing and it was so painful and hard for me. And I was on the phone and there was just so much going on. If I could have just had a product that was safe and effective that I could use, that would have been very helpful.
0:15:10 S2: Yeah, so we make these products, these Gal Pals are flexible cooling bra inserts. And so we make them in two temperatures, this temperature goes in the refrigerator and it's ready to go in about 20 minutes. We also make it in a different color and a different temperature. This product recools at room temperature. So if you're carrying your breast pumping bag around with you or a diaper bag, these will recool at any room temperature below 80 degrees. So these are kind of always ready to go. But you mentioned if you have a mini fridge or if you're taking a little lunch to work and you've got an ice pack in there, these will cool in a lunch box, a cooler, a mini fridge, or even in your car in your air conditioning vents. If you tuck them in there, these will go back to cool state too.
0:15:54 S1: That is brilliant actually because I used to have to pump in my car because I was a rep. I just met the founder of Willow, the Discrete Breast Pump. She was great, very much like you, but I was saying that having the little cooler because you would pump and then you'd have to have your cooler, so you could keep these in your cooler and then have your discrete breast pump. You could just have it. It's like if I would have had this 16 years ago, holy cow, I would be so efficient and feel so much better. It's like you really are bringing life back to women in stages of life where there's so much uncertainty and it's so hard to navigate.
0:16:38 S2: Yeah. And women just need every tool we have to make ourselves feel our best and most beautiful and healthiest. And these products are really designed with women's health in mind. And that's why I just am so proud of the Opal brand. And Opal as a stone is symbolic of health and healing and resiliency. So there's a lot of good meaning behind the Opal name too.
0:17:00 S1: Oh, that's beautiful. Do you or your child have symptoms of strep throat, such as sore throat or fever? Do you want to help an innovative startup validate their at-home strep test? Checkable Medical is currently enrolling children ages five and up, and adults for a strep throat study. Go to www.testforstrep.com to see if there's a site near you. Again, that website is www.testforstrep.com. So you've been on the market for a couple of years now. I'd love to hear what your customers have to say about the products, both Onyx and Opal.
0:17:43 S2: We just get a really good response from people who have used the product. They are our best marketers, our best word of mouth. We've also been really fortunate about getting some really nice national appearances like Good Morning America, The View, we've been on QVC. And so that's really helped us spread the word as well, along with conversations like this, like with you, Patty, and helping other women know what's out there for them. And so we launched right before Covid, which was a really hard time to launch a new product, but we, like the name Opal, are still resilient and thriving and continuing to grow the company and grow the brand, and look for new avenues to take the product to market.
0:18:25 S1: And are you a digital-only company or are you at physical retailers right now?
0:18:31 S2: We are at one physical retail location. During Covid, we were primarily focused on digital and online sales. So we're in the places that you can imagine, like Amazon and walmart.com. But the places that I'm most excited about where our products are now coming online are places like, there's a new website called My Power Pack, which is kind of like Caring Bridge for people that are experiencing a health crisis. And we're in their healthcare marketplace. And so 40% of the sales of our products go back to support My Power Pack. So finding venues like that, that align with my personal mission and values, but also get our products to the people that need them are what really make me feel the most fulfilled as we're trying to share these products for women's health.
0:19:18 S1: Wow. I haven't heard of that before. My Power Pack?
0:19:20 S2: Mypowerpack.com. And I think Caring Bridge is going to be getting into that space as well. They do have some products in a marketplace, but finding venues like that to support women and men, our Onyx products are on there as well for people that have had a knee surgery or hip surgery. And another little known fact is that people, women that are going through breast cancer also end up in chemo-induced menopause. So as you're battling breast cancer, you often have a double whammy. So we donate a lot of our wraps to breast cancer survivors too. And men who have prostate cancer get hot flashes as well. That's something that people also don't know about. So we've got a cooling vest that men can use for their symptoms of hot flashes as well.
0:20:05 S1: Oh, that's interesting. I would assume it's the hormones that are leaving your body or the depletion of hormones.
0:20:12 S2: Yeah. It's kind of the chemotherapy and the surgical and chemo-induced menopause that happens to people as they're battling breast cancer. I actually purchased a bunch of the Onyx Cool products for my father-in-law, my father, and my husband for Christmas last year. And they were absolutely fantastic gifts because it's consistently that when they go to find something that it's not messy, it's very easy to get cold, but then I feel like it sustains the cool longer. Is there some science that it stays cooler longer?
0:20:48 S2: It does, and it maintains the constant temperature. So the products that come out of the refrigerator that don't have to go in the freezer, they'll maintain that constant 58 degrees, which is safe to wear directly on the skin. And most of our products, like the knee product, the shoulder product, the back-hip product, those will stay cold for about an hour to an hour and 15 minutes and at that constant 58 degrees, which is why they actually help people heal faster because you're getting that constant cooling, but something that's not dangerously cold. So yes, they do last longer than typical gel and ice products, but most importantly, they're safe and soothing. So patient compliance goes up because people actually like to use them, which means because they're doing the cool therapy as it's intended, they're actually going to heal faster and get back in the game.
0:21:34 S1: Are you working with any health systems by any chance? Or like when I go to a hospital and I, what is that called? Like the boutique that's in the hospital?
0:21:45 S2: Yeah, the gift shop. Yeah, the gift shop. We actually haven't gotten into those yet. Mostly it was a function of timing with Covid. Oh yeah. So hospitals weren't taking any new products in at the time, which is why we really started building the business around consumer direct. That's the next area for us. We fell into some hospitals like Inglewood Hospital, for example, they ordered cases of each of the products every week and they give them to patients after a surgery because what they found is patients would heal faster. They did a study comparing the Onyx Cool Knee using our plant-based cooling phase-change material to a circulating-water device, which I think you're familiar with those as well. And their HCAP scores, which is their patient satisfaction scores, increased from 63% to 94% post-surgery. The amount of pain medication that was used by the patient post-op went down dramatically and they healed faster because of compliance. So if patients like a product, if they feel comfortable using it, they're going to heal much faster. And so once we get into a hospital system, we find that they order case after case, but it's just breaking through those first doors. And that was a challenge during Covid. A new area that we're excited to be moving into, and I haven't even launched the site yet, we're going to be moving our products into school and healthcare fundraising. Because most of the school fundraisers that you see are really unhealthy. They're cookie dough, they're candy, they're pizzas. And so there's really no health and wellness products in the sports-fundraising arena. And every year in the US, $1.5 billion worth of product are sold for school fundraisers. So we're going to create a new fundraising platform to help schools raise money and share the profits with them by using our products. So you can imagine, little league teams, basketball teams, lacrosse teams, cheerleading squads. I mean, this is going to be our brand new business strategy, a brand new place for us to bring our products to market in an area that nobody else is doing health and wellness. Oh my gosh. Similarly, we want to create these products for women for breast cancer survivors, as I mentioned, or MS, and really focus on health verticals as well to help people that want to support women that are experiencing a health crisis. Well, I have two teams that we would be, we're looking actually for fundraising opportunities for lacrosse and for soccer, and we would be a great market to start in. So I could be one of your first takers, Tammy, on that. That is absolutely brilliant.
0:24:24 S2: I would love that, Patty. I would love to do that with you. It would be fantastic.
0:24:29 S1: I love how you said that about wellness and then recover faster. And if we think of what is, I mean, if we think of mental health that comes with an injury or comes with a post-surgical or even post-diagnosis, if there are forms of wellness therapy that can help you manage your care independently, those are all things that I think we should spend money on personally, because that's like, I think the hardest thing with direct-to-consumer is getting people to open their wallets. But your messaging right there just really hits home to me because we want to feel better faster and that's what your products allow us to do, or manage our care at home.
0:25:17 S2: My goal is to kind of create a whole new fundraising platform. And you have a lot of products at Checkable Medical that might also fit well on a platform like this. So looking for partners like you that also have things that moms and dads, and grandpas and grandmas are all looking for that help them stay healthy or help them get back to better health again.
0:25:38 S1: That is so smart. I mean, we could put, we're launching five diagnostics in the first quarter. We could put diagnostics on there, we could put our supplements on there. We could put your supplement line. Absolutely. I was just thinking about that, to build it out as a platform that gives people a range of choices. Rather than the, like you said, chocolate chip cookies or candy that, I mean, I love to have them, but I don't need them. I don't need to have, I don't need to spend a hundred dollars. That's what I just bought is a hundred dollars worth of chocolate chip, different kinds of cookie dough that's going to be sitting in my freezer for, well, actually with the boys they'll go quite fast, but I would rather get a couple of, a couple of wellness products over that. That is really, that is really brilliant. So how far are you along with that?
0:26:28 S2: Well, I just kind of came up with this over the weekend. So now I'm looking at a web developer to build the portal. I'm having a couple of conversations about that. You know, that's what's great about these kinds of conversations and how women entrepreneurs work in general. One spark can lead to a forest fire of opportunity as I think about it, about how we work together and help each other build our brands and build our business, but also do something that's going to help a lot of people live better lives.
0:26:54 S1: Gosh, you're such an entrepreneur. You literally just thought of it over the weekend and it's Monday and you're on it. People think maybe we're talking on a Friday. No, it's Monday morning at 11:30 right now. That's awesome. Do you think that that's a big market opportunity? What did you say, $1.5 billion?
0:27:16 S2: $1.5 billion in the US alone, product sales for school fundraisers. And that's just school fundraisers. That doesn't count all of the money that people raise for breast cancer survivors, for Susan G. Komen, for Hope Chest for breast cancer, for the Firefly Sisterhood. All of these are partners that I've worked with in the past that I want to create a fundraising machine to help them do their good and share the profits with them. The reason I'm in business is because I want to make money to do good in the world. I don't need three beautiful homes. I don't need many more clothes. I just want to be able to use consumerism as a force for good. And we've got great products that can help people lead better lives. So yeah, this is the next evolution of Opal and Onyx Cool.
0:28:07 S1: Oh my gosh. Okay. Well, we definitely have to have a happy hour to talk more about this. Tammy Lee, it was so wonderful to talk to you. Thank you so much for giving your time to our audience and all the best with this holiday season of 2022.
0:28:24 S2: And same to you, Patty. Thanks for having me on the show. You too inspire me and so many other women. So it's always a pleasure to spend the time with you.
0:28:31 S1: Thank you. Oh, that's such a great episode. If you couldn't tell, Tammy and I are very good friends. She as I said, has been a mentor to me and an inspiration. And I'm so proud of her of what she's accomplished in her career. Very approachable as well. So I really encourage you to take a look at her products on her websites. And like I said, they are great products for gifts. At Checkable, we will be distributing her products on our website. From this podcast, we actually thought of some different ways that we can collaborate, which I'm really thankful for. It's actually the reason why I started this podcast was other opportunities that I can meet amazing people, share their stories, as well as let's learn about health and how can we get this information to our customers so they can thrive in life. And I really believe that her products are so high quality, made in the USA. You're supporting not just one founder, but she has, as she stated, an entire team. And you will feel confident because it is research backed, which is something that is very hard to do in this space of health and wellness. Not a lot of people do it. It is an investment and you do need to have the best and the brightest on your team in order to gather that data and compile it. And then also put it in a presentable fashion. So you would feel confident giving that product as a gift. I love those Gal Pals. If you have a new mom or if you have a woman that is going through breast cancer, or if you have a woman in your life that's going through menopause, what a great thoughtful gift to get her the Gal Pals. If you would like to know more about our community, we are community driven, customer first. We do have a Facebook page and it's Hero Moms Group. I encourage you to get on there and participate with our community. It's a group of moms with school-aged children and we talk about mom stuff, health. We also have a newsletter that if you go to our website, CheckableHealth.com, sign up for our newsletter and we have coupons for our supplements and then also lots of great information like information about menopause, to features of our past guests on the Checkable Health podcast. Follow us on @Checkable Health at any of the social channels. And if you have a guest that you think would really bring a lot of value to our listeners in the health and wellness area, please encourage you to send me a message. I'd love to interview them. In our next segment, we are going to talk a lot about women and hormones. There's a lot of talk. If you go on TikTok, there are women that are just everyday women talking about how they've been misdiagnosed or how they weren't diagnosed at all and experiencing named symptoms and they were able to get their arms around their hormones and how their life has changed. So I'm dedicating a number of episodes to that leading up into 2023. And then we're going to talk about how to set those wellness goals for your life and how to not only just set them, but then how to incorporate them into your life so we can consistently achieve our goals and not feel bad about it. So with that, thank you so much for being a listener. Please give us five stars. We really appreciate that. And until next time, I hope you feel empowered to take your health on at home and thrive in your life for yourself and your families.